There are things that Congress does that are just stupid. And some that are just nonsense. But there are some things done by members of Congress that make me really angry. And this nonsense put forward by Republicans — and swallowed whole by the suddenly cowardly Democrats in Congress — that closing Gitmo would release a wave of dangerous terrorists into “America’s backyard” — is such a load of horse manure that you could fertilize the entire state of Texas with it.
Once again, this has become another one of those arguments where the facts seem to be completely ignored by the mainstream media, Congress and a sizable number of Americans. (I swear, sometimes I think the citizens of this country pay about as much attention as to what it really going on as do a class of middle schoolers the week before school gets out.)
So here are a few of the reasons why this is just a load of penguin droppings:
1) Let’s deal with the “wave of terrorists” theme. What are we talking about, a couple of hundred detainees? And according to most reports, perhaps a couple of dozen are what you call “real bad guys.” The others? Due to “incompetence in battlefield vetting,” many of the detainees were, as former chief of staff to US Secretary of State Lawrence Wilkerson put it, “innocent of any substantial wrongdoing, had
little intelligence value, and should be immediately released.” We already know that several were individuals just picked because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
2) Uhmm, what about the real bad terrorists who are already on U.S. soil? Like Zacarias Moussaoui, Richard “Shoe Bomber” Reid, and Ramzi Yousef, the man responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing? They are already in U.S. prisons, after being tried and found guilty, and are serving their time. If members of Congress are so worried about terrorists being in their backyard, how come no one has hollered for them to be moved? And it kind of puts to the lie the idea that having a dangerous terrorist in a local prison will make you a target of an Al Qaeda attack, doesn’t it? After all, no one has attacked Florence, Colorado where all those terrorists mentioned above are held. People who envision these apocolyptic events watch too much ‘24.’
3) So, if they did move one of the dangerous terrorists to a federal max security prison in the U.S., what are the chances of escaping and charging into your backyard? (Probably during your barbeque, right? At least that’s the idea being promoted by Repubicans.)
Would you believe zero. As far as I can discover, according to government statistics, not a single person has escaped from a federal maximum security prison in the U.S. in the past decade. Zilch. Nada. Rien. One federal prisoner escaped and was recaptured in 1999, out of a
prison population of more than 115,000. He was the only one to escape
in the previous four years.
My guess is that if you’re safe from murders, rapists, and their friends already in federal max lock up from interrupting your burgers, than you don’t have to worry about these guys.
4) This posting from Daily Kos kind of says it all: “So John McCain is going to chase Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell
but he is too afraid to transport bin Laden’s shackled, unarmed minions
through the gates of our toughest prisons, where they will be kept
locked up, under armed guard? Thank God for those brave French, willing
to take a few of these demonic terrorists off our hands!”
5) And if you really want to punish the “real bad guys,” sending them to a max security prison in the US would be far worse than anything they might have experienced at Gitmo. This Slate article puts it in perspective.
Ultimately, this is an issue where emotions and spin are triumping over the facts. (The French, for heaven’s sake, are showing more intestinal fortitute about this issue than are our members of Congress.) Leaving Gitmo open does far more damage to the US, in terms of the way the world looks at us and how Al Qaeda uses it as a recruiting tool, than does closing Gitmo and moving a relatively small number of detainees into US federal prisons.
Seldom have I been more ashamed of the cowardice shown by Democrats in Congress as I have been on this issue.
{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }
Preparing for a large-scale jihad. Arkansas Jihad Killer Update:
“Suspect in Solider Attack Was Once Detained in Yemen,” by James Dao and David Johnston for the New York Times, June 3 (thanks to all who sent this in):
A 23-year-old man charged with killing one soldier and seriously wounding another in a shooting outside an Army recruiting office in Little Rock, Ark., was once detained in Yemen for possessing a fake Somali passport and other counterfeit documents, law enforcement officials said Tuesday.
The episode in Yemen prompted a preliminary inquiry by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and other American law enforcement agencies into whether the man, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, had ties to extremist groups, the officials said. But that investigation was inconclusive, they said, leaving the bureau with insufficient evidence to wiretap his phone or put him under surveillance.
It is not clear when Mr. Muhammad, an American convert to Islam who was traveling on a valid United States passport, was detained in Yemen or why he would have been carrying counterfeit documents. His detention in Yemen was first reported Tuesday by ABC News.
Mr. Muhammad has been charged with one count of capital murder and 15 counts of terroristic acts in Monday’s shooting, in a parking lot outside the recruiting office. He pleaded not guilty Tuesday in a preliminary hearing before a state judge in Little Rock and was ordered held there without bond at the Pulaski County jail.
Mr. Muhammad has told investigators that he acted alone, the Little Rock police said. But his travels to Yemen and possibly Somalia raise questions about whether he met with any of the militant Islamic groups that are active in both countries.
“Mr. Muhammad stated that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what they had done to Muslims in the past,” an arrest report filed by the Little Rock police said. “Mr. Muhammad further stated that he would have killed more soldiers if they had been on the parking lot.”…
Mr. Muhammad was heavily armed when he was arrested Monday shortly after fleeing the shooting scene in his black Ford truck. The police confiscated an SKS military-style rifle and a .22-caliber rifle found inside the truck, they said, as well as a .380-caliber semiautomatic handgun he had tucked in his waistband.
Mr. Muhammad was wearing a green utility belt holding more than 150 rounds of ammunition for the two rifles, and an additional 24 rounds for the handgun were in his pants pocket, according to a police inventory.
Inside the truck, the inventory said, investigators also found several boxes of ammunition and a red duffle bag containing two homemade silencers, binoculars, clothing and medicine. There were also several CDs labeled in Arabic writing….
Islamist are peaceful fanatics that pose no threat to society and will fully integrate into ours. Codswallop !
May 30, 2009
Taliban cell sent to bomb Britain
An imam was involved. Why didn’t he instruct the plotters about the true, peaceful Islam? “Taliban target Britain on ‘orders’ from al-Qaeda,” by Duncan Gardham for the Telegraph, May 29 (thanks to Jeffrey Imm):
A Taliban-trained terrorist was part of a cell sent to bomb Britain as revenge for their presence in Afghanistan, it has emerged.
The terrorist informant has told prosecutors he was trained by Baitullah Mehsud, the leader of the Pakistan Taliban, and was planning a series of suicide attacks with 11 other men.
The informant, known as “Ahmed”, told investigators the bombers were to work in pairs using a “device carried in a backpack with a third person to detonate a remote control” in order to ensure the bombers went through with their mission….
It is claimed the attacks were to begin on the Barcelona underground system and then spread to the other European countries with a presence in Afghanistan, thought to include Britain, according to new documents.
The information echoed claims made by British security services that a terrorist cell was sent to Manchester from the Taliban heartland in Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas.
British investigators believe that the cell, which was allegedly planning attacks on the Trafford and Arndale shopping centres over the Easter holidays, had connections with al-Qaeda, and Spanish prosecutors say their cell may also have had links with al-Qaeda….
The 10 men arrested in the north west are fighting deportation on national security grounds after Government lawyers accused them of being members of a “UK-based network linked to al-Qaeda involved in attack planning”.
Spanish police found chemicals including nitrocellulose and potassium perchlorate along with batteries, timers and cables in the raids.
They also found “materials for indoctrination” relating to attacks against Nato forces in Afghanistan and books and DVDs.
Spanish prosecutors submitted documents laying out their case earlier this month and Dolores Delgado Garcia, a prosecutor at Spain’s National Court, told the Daily Telegraph she believed the Barcelona cell was inspired by speeches by Osama bin Laden about the “loss of Andalucia” once part of the Muslim Ottoman empire.
“Al-Qaeda has been targeting Spain because of its historic associations with Andalucia,” she said. “But other cities in Europe where countries have troops in Afghanistan were also targets.”…
They have named Maroof Ahmed Mirza, 40, an imam at a mosque in Raval, as the leader of the cell along with Elia Mohammad Ayud Bibi, 64, while three others, Afees Ahmed, Qadeer Malik and Iqbal Sabih, were allegedly the bomb-makers.
The suicide bombers are said to have included Mohammed Shoaib, Mehmooh Khalid, Imran Cheema and ur-Rehman Aqeel Khalid.
Their other targets are said to have included Germany, France and Portugal.
I actually think that you are right on each of those points, @tregan. But I don’t think those are the only issues.
I can’t keep up with Congress, since they can’t figure out what they’re whining about. And sure, the Republicans may have brought it up, but everyone already knew how they felt–this wouldn’t even be newsworthy if Harry Reid hadn’t opened his yap. So, I will talk only for myself and not Senator XXXX or Representative YYYY.
My concern first and foremost is these dirtbags going to trial. I don’t think overseas terrorism should be criminalized and persecuted under domestic law, whether it regards Osama bin Laden or Somali pirates. Our soldiers don’t need to take fingerprints or fly back to testify on a stand. They are soldiers not cops. I also (even more so) do not want some ACLU lawyer getting to stick his head into classified intelligence in order to make his defense. Sorry, but Americans get due process, and that’s as far as our legal obligations extend. I don’t want to extend our US Constitution beyond our border, because it is impossible.
My second concern is the recruitment factor. The terrorist attack0 recently prevented in New York did not involve radical pro-life, ex-military, right-wing extremists, it involved young Israel hating muslims who had been radicalized while in jail. I can only imagine that a few hundred ex-Gitmo detainees might manage to set up a recruitment operation if they were in domestic prisons.
But both of these concerns can be easily addressed. President Obama needs to come up with a plan to keep these men out of trial and keep them out of contact with other prisoners. He has come up with multi-billion dollar stimulus and bailout plans, so I am sure he will come up with something. It seems like an easy solution–it would satisfy me, but I imagine politicians will find a new angle to criticize him about this.
What a load of codswallop ! Your righteousness indignation is truly rooted in ignorance and “recklessness”. 300 hardened terrorist the caliber of detainees in GITMO in U.S. prisons! Not even close and just an example of plain disinformation. Get real.
You cherry pick your intelligence experts that agree with you — I guarantee most disagree with your assessment- to include 3 CIA directors and a host of line officers that number in the thousands compared to a few inexperienced that you can name. As far as Gates, he obviously supported it under Bush and now supports Obama’s position. Believe either one you want, but Gates is supporting the Commander in Chief in charge at the time. That’s his job.
The left truly amazes me – You’ll risk my life in the defense of your misguided ideals but employ massive brute force and worse to protect yours.
I care about the Constitution and spend many years defending it. I will oppose people that want to destroy it in the name of misplaced humanistic ideals providing Constitutional rights to foreign individuals that want to destroy it.
I have no idea of what Liberty University has to do with this discussion—It’s only a private university that can do what it wants—Do you need examples of the Lefts intolerance for opposing ideas?
I’m sorry but the above comment yet another example of the uniformed codswallop that is smothering this issue.
1) There are already about, at last count, 3oo terrorists or terrorist suspects in US jails. Including about a dozen of the truly dangerous guys that you seem to be so afraid. So far no prison breaks, (none, remember, in a decade from federal max security, where all the ‘bad guys” would be and are) no attacks on malls by escapees. I could go on but you’ve already shown that facts mean nothing to you. So it seems to be that you are the one who is “clearly ignorant on our prison systems and capabilities.”
3) Gee, who thinks that keeping Gitmo open hurts us and helps Al Qaeda? Several dozen intelligent experts. The secretary of defense. Lots of people who know the situation. Read, if you can find the time, this piece by ColinPowell’s former Chief of Staff on what a mistake that Gitmo is. (http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/03/some_truths_abo/) Maybe then you can tell people you read at least ONE person with that point of view.
3) The problem with conservatives is that too many of them truly care nothing for the US constitution, human rights, individual liberties, or anything else that makes America different from every other country on the planet. The America they believe in is barely different from dozens of petty little tyrannies and dictatorships around the world. It’s why we have to keep them away from the levers of power again as long as we can
Finally, on your Islam point, I was taken today by Liberty University (that bastion of conservatism) decision to not let the Democratic student club operate on campus anymore because it went against the university’s values. My first thought was, hey, just like in Iran. They don’t like people who think differently than the official line there either. So just ban ‘em. I’ve always suspected US religious conservatives and Iran’s religious mullahs were separated at birth.
“The Obama Administration announced on Friday that they were planning on releasing “non-threatening” Gitmo detainess inside the US. Team Obama even wants to give these terrorists financial assistance. The main group of terrorists in question are the 17 Uighur Muslim separatists from China.Team Obama says they are not a threat.” Does my heart good to know that you and Obama are able to determine who is a threat and not and then decide to support them on tax payer dollars. Add to this 20% recidivism that we know about and you guys sure sound like experts.
You are clearly ignorant on our prison systems and capabilities. These detainees are all battle hardened and trained terrorist picked up on the front. What civilian prison is trained much less capable of handling men like this. Check the escapes from Max security units today– not good enough for these guys. I’m sure they wouldn’t mix with other conventional prisoners in the U.S. Oh! Let me see now– U.S. violent offenders converted to Islam while in New York Prison, attempt to blow up New York Synagogue. Don’t be ridiculous guys and pretend your knowledge of prisons and Islamic extremist is enough to protect citizens lives. Liberal ideas such this should stay in their ivory towers – where they can do no damage. Follow your own democratic congressman, they know what their doing for a change.
As a final thought, I keep hearing the Democrat ” penguin droppings” that GITMO has stained our image and recruited many terrorists that would not have otherwise been recruited. I keep waiting for proof of this outrageous claim but so far I wait in vain. I even can’t figure out which allies disagree with GITMO — only France stepped up to take one of the detainees! Hardly a resounding support for closure.
I was wondering when someone was going to expose this argument about NIMBY terrorists for what it is. And its not only Republicans as you point out its also Democrats who pander to the “fears” of their uneducated constituents. The “danger” posed by one of these people if they escape if much less than say a Una-Bomber, Willie Horton, Alberto Desalvo or Charlie Manson. Give me a terrorist anytime on the loose over one of these people.
A sad fact is that some of the detainees are not even guilty but because of the abuse they have suffered we have turned them into potential anti American terrorists. Look how many “terrorists” have already been released because we simply had no grounds to hold on to them any longer. The threat of one of them coming back is far greater than housing one in our max prisons.
The whole argument makes Americans look uninformed. Our elected representatives don’t have the balls to do the right thing.
The best way to pass legislature that would close Gitmo is to attach it as an amendment to a pay increase bill for our cowardly Congress people.